is this supposed to make me forget that the USA is currently occupied by a mercenary kidnapper force who has abducted tens of thousands or like… are we supposed to commiserate?
NVM didn’t see it was a UK source, are you guys occupied by kidnappers too?
"Can’t Elon Musk do anything? What about Trump?”
Why would you not realize that those two fucks are just as insane as Khomeini?
I never thought I’d see Lemmy so desperately supporting a theocratic dictatorship that allows women to be stoned to death for minor “offenses” to their archaic code, but here we are.
For a lot of people on here, tankies especially, anyone that opposes the West is incapable of doing harm and must be defended at all costs. Human rights abuses are ignored so long as they can go “west bad”. Like, yes, the West is indeed bad. That doesn’t excuse the awful actions of the regimes that oppose them nor make it okay.
From where I’m sitting, pretty much everyone in power is fucked.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. A tale as old as humanity itself.
Similarly, money is not the root of evil. Desire to get it no matter what, is.
Power and authority are the big root problems
It’s ok they are a minority, hence the downvotes, I just wish Lemmy would auto hide/fold comments below -3.
Tankies are just nationalists for other countries, it’s why they’re so boring and predictable in their retoric and have no problem dehumanizing anyone they disagree with, especially women. They claim to be “socialist” or “communist”, but really they’re just MLs who worship Stalin (& other dictators) not because of any progress they achieved in the countries they dictated (it was often minimal beyond an initial boom due to getting rid of the previous dictator) but because they said cool rhetoric against the West (often while collaborating with Western capitalists or even Nazis).
They’re also loud and unpopular, the way we beat them on Lemmy is simply to grow the userbase of normal users to the point where the tankies posting their insane takes is just background noise.
When I first made this comment they were up voted and the majority in the thread. Glad to see it reverse
Yeah, got a comment removed as „islamophobic“, calling the regime islamofascists, while at the same time rooting for the people of Iran. Some people cannot comprehend, that the enemy of my enemy is sometimes just another dictatorial regime full of assholes.
There is a lot to unpack here honestly. Let me say first that I support the Iranian people in their quest for reforms. For me the second thing is history.
The US has had its hand in regime change in Iran for a long time going back to the 1950s. They helped install a dictator and remove an elected democratic leader. This arguably lead to the revolution.
So people who know history are a little bit bitter with the US and allies bombing the fuck out of Iran while calling their people to rise up.
Please. Opposing intervention is not the same as “supporting the regime”. By the way, how did that theocratic dictatorship come to be?
And finally:
This is a garbage gotcha because you assume that I support the US policy of intervention.
I can both acknowledge that the current regime in Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and that the US has no buisness intervening.
I am equally capable of disliking the regime in Iran and the US.
If the regime falls this is great. If the US intervenes and forcibly topples the regime this is bad. As we’ve seen historically that leads to failure.
Maybe don’t support a regime that allows for raped women to be murdered?
It is probably chatbots making these dumbass ad hominem arguments.
Yes same with Venezuela, regime bad, therefore war good, opposing war bad. As they are advocating for the worst people in the world to use military force.
That’s all good and well but the fact of the matter is that the U.S. and western allies are intervening, and we have intervened continuously since we overthrew their secular democratic government in 1953. Since the Islamic Revolution overthrew our puppet regime in 1979, we have crippled their economy with sanctions, assassinated leaders and civilian scientists, and bombed their country. Even if you believe these revolts are 100% organic, manifesting spontaneously with no assistance or encouragement from Mossad, CIA, etc (doubtful), the context is that the people have already been victimized and pushed to the brink by western powers as much as their own government. That is context that simply cannot be ignored, particularly since this looks a lot like 1953.
Even if you believe these revolts are 100% organic, manifesting spontaneously with no assistance or encouragement from Mossad, CIA, etc
So do you any proof of that or are you just really really sure that’s true?
the context is that the people have already been victimized and pushed to the brink by western powers as much as their own government
And? Does this mean there’s no possible way that these people are capable of not wanting to live under a theocratic dictatorship? Are you trying to imply they can’t make that decision on their own? If so that’s infantalizing and patronizing an entire group of people.
Or are you suggesting that the whole reason that this oppressive regime is in charge is because of the US? Because that is entirely true. You’ll get no disagreement from me.
Also why are you wasting your time monologing on all the terrible things the west have done to the middle east and Iran? You’ll get no disagreement from me. These were all bad actions. I don’t see how that justifys a theocratic dictatorship that brutalizes its own population.
You can be anti-western intervention and anti-dictatorship. Actually based on your own source you so kindly provided these are one in the same. As your source said 73% of dictatorships are propped up by the US.
Nono, the Iranian people must please stay quiet and just accept their theocratic overlords, you see. They really don’t like the US, so we must kiss their ass.
There’s also a big push by these people from any retaliation in the US saying it’s “exactly what he wants”.
Stay quite and let dictators do what they like. That’s the go to for dictatorship to continue.
I never thought
Jury’s out on that.
Lemmy so desperately
[ citation needed ]
I don’t see Lemmy ‘desperate’ for anything.
supporting
[citation needed]
I do not see Lemmy ‘supporting’ anything.
You can be my first citation
So we agree you may not know how to cite a valid source.
Your definition of supporting is not supporting the US and Israel vs Iran War II. So yes, I can believe that.
What I can’t believe is trolls would bother to work little old lemmy threads to work up cause for war.
Such a fun war for your patrons, the US and Israel, as Iran can’t fight back in any real way. Planes are fun.
If you can’t believe paid shills and other bad faith operators are present on lemmy, then you’ve really not been paying much attention…
Apparently, the interactions I’ve had on this have left me convinced there are influence agents, and I may even have had an ai chatbot arguing with me. Either than or a very lazy influence operative.
You wouldn’t think they would bother in such granular detail as working lemmy but I guess with automation and ai there is no limit, social media will be rendered useless from them at some point. It’s already over half of accounts that are thought to be fake, influence agent accounts. Over half of all internet content is written by machines too I believe if I have the statistic right.
Your grandpa 95% beat his wife too, hell even your dad depending on your age. Progress is something that happens in times of peace.
Occupying and colonizing only ever stalls that progress. See Afghanistan as example.
Man, I love comparing individual violence against a state that enforces a strict legal gender apartheid.
The USSR had more progressive laws during their civil war than in peace times under Stalin. It’s a leadership question, not a peace question.
Yeah, no. Growth is achieved only through adversity. Take the US, for example. Keep things “peaceful”, you get a complacent population that manages to elect an orange rapid monkey into office. That’s progress? Sure buddy…
“We either hang together, or we will hang separately.” - George Washington
Benjamin Franklin
Is that a quote from a courageous mossad agent?
tyrannical theocracy is bad, mmkay?
By the same logic, someone should bomb strike and kill thousands doing a regime change in the tyrannical theocracy of america, their totalitarian fascism affects me more personally than Iran’s
“logic.”
go revolt like the courageous ppl of Iran.
Unlike the propagandized people in the imperial core, i don’t endorse foreign bloody intervention of evil empires, even if america deserves it. ;)
They will do it to themselves anyway. The war machine folds inwards.
sure, Jan.
tyrannical theocracy is bad, mmkay?
By the same logic, someone should bomb strike and kill thousands doing a regime change in the tyrannical theocracy of america
America does appear to be waxing both tyrannical and theocratic; and people could be dying from the effects of being the ‘out’ group in that environment. You may have a strong point here.
I’m hoping for secession .
The US and company fomented the unrest to the best of their ability you can be sure. Coming on the heels of a bad faith war with Israel and the US that Iran was powerless to respond to, having to be humiliated and have nothing of substance to return with, these protests will be ruthlessly crushed as Iran rallies around the flag.
The protests are associated with the US. Even before the president talked about it. The US is doing all it can to exacerbate them too.
Celebrating this is naive, this is just more cause for war being manufactured so Israel can postpone elections longer, and associated bullshit in the US’ Israel First policy.
Iran powerless even after the terrorist orgs they bankroll went wonky? Tell that to the unarmed civilians they shot in the fucking face.
You’re a disgusting anti-human ghoul, shilling for tyrants and murders.
Yes not giving the US and Israel cause for more Iran war is “disgusting,” great point. That is the quality of conversation I have come to expect from the mechanized troll legions and their carpet bombing of social media campaigns with diarrhea shit.
It works on some people, the weak minded.
Why do you consider rape, murder, and maiming as state policy as an acceptable way to terrorize the Iranian people for protesting?
Israel rapes kills and murders. You want to give them cause to wreck havoc in Iran.
Because Isreal has acted evilly, that justifies the Iranian government shooting their citizens in the face for protesting?
Your logic would not fool a child. Because Iran bad let worse Israel and US people make it worse. War mongers do not make very good arguments, just repeat them aggressively, and are backed up by the government running legions of trolls and bots and using their corrupt influence to make it seem like those war mongering justifications are accepted by people.
No to Iran War 2. Spin that.
The only people shooting Iranians today is the Iranian government, your attempts to deflect aren’t working. Why is Iran murdering and maiming protesters justified to you?
Yeah it’s better to have a legal code that allows women to be stoned. Obviously there’s no way anyone in that country could ever not want that. Must be the US
Yeah it’s better to have a legal code that allows women to be stoned.
If it’s a binary choice, remind me what they have now that’s better.
You are so worried about human rights when it’s a US military target, funny how that works.
Because their government is bad, then it’s totally ok to go to war with them and try to get a different bad government. Our government has such a good track record setting up puppet regimes too, what in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Suddenly you know everything about me?
Do you truly believe I only care because it’s a “US military target”?
Because their government is bad, then it’s totally ok to go to war with them and try to get a different bad government
Never said that either. It’s also a statement I’m fundamentally against.
It’s also equally true that the government of Iran is oppressive.
Both of these can be true.
Sure sounded like you were endorsing military action, endorsing the worst people on the planet, and the most hated in the region, to bomb them some more, maybe assassinate some of their leaders. Because they are mean.
You think the US getting involved militarily is going to help?
You think the US getting involved militarily is going to help?
Never said that, nor does this article. Actually if you are done trying to make an argument I said just the opposite
I did go back over your comments, and you are full of shit. You are whipping up cause for war you lied to me.
What the hell are you talking about? Every comment I made is anti-intervetion.
I do hope the people of Iran overthrow their government. It’s terribly repressive.
I do not want to US or any outside power to get involved.
deleted by creator
This is the first time Trump could actually do something meaningful to improve something in the world. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
He’ll absolutely find a way to fuck it up into some sort of humanitarian catastrophe, make money off of it, and push the average opinion that Iranian people have of America even lower.
He couldn’t even fuck up covid into a scam. Like imagine making Trump brand face masks. They would have sold like hotcakes.
imagine making Trump brand face masks. They would have sold like hotcakes.
They did, but they weren’t a Trump-launched thing. There’s a correlation there.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kadiagoba/etsy-trump-face-masks-coronavirus
You think starting a second Iran War is “meaningful?” Wow.
Ironic you no doubt lament and scorn the right for falling for propaganda.
I’d say the current situation in Iran is comparable to civil war; support for the rebels would probably help speed up things and reduce deaths on their side.
The only war is the ongoing one with Israel and the US and Iran and their allies. I suspect your media and sources of information are doing you a disservice if you see things like that.
Be honest, do you see the theocratical regime in Iran as a positive thing? Iran under the Shah was pretty progressive and actually gave a shit about basic human rights, something you can’t say about Iran today.
Yeah the basic human rights of BP to have access to Iran’s resources
The Shah was incredibly repressive. Infamous secret police. The ruling class had some rights, got their pictures taken smiling.
This is all just trying to restart the war and you are going along with it, why? Because you believe them? That the shah was great, that the protests can topple the regime here?
You didn’t answer my question. Do you approve of the current status of Iran as a theocratical-military dictatorship?
I have no say in the government of Iran. The only thing we have a say in is if we give the worst people in the world cause to war against them more. You don’t either. Iran government mean, US/Israel Warring good, is your logic here.
As if that would help anything, it would make it worse. But helping isn’t the point, distracting the public for israel is.
Well it certainly would have meaning. Not likely a good outcome, of course.
Ideally we could support the protesters/rebels somehow. The idea of threatening US military action is to put more pressure on the Iranian regime with the hope that they’ll collapse and run away. Won’t work tho because they’re religious / ideological and will fight to their deaths.No it won’t work to unseat the regime. They are still at war right now with the US for all intents and purposes, and as such are in a rally around the flag situation.
It will work for the US and israel to restart hostilities with Iran however. Then Israel can distract issues and delay elections, and not admit their leaders made mistakes, for a while longer. In the US it’s Israel First as always.
We could call it “Operation Ajax Part II: The Stupiding”
As much as I hate the tankies that love the IRCG because they are too dumb to understand that two things can be bad.
I think western meddling would also be bad, so far Mosad has taken responsibility ISIS style (it’s a win-win for them, the more paranoid and brutal Iran act the better they look)
That’s what I’ve learned since my first experience with 4x games. You didn’t make anything bad if you win
Nah, you can be the next Syria, or have an American puppet in place to syphon off the country’s wealth.
So let’s just keep the Mullahs, at least then the country’s wealth is siphoned off to individuals with Iranian Passes.
So Iran is gonna defederate?
