• Buffalox@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    175
    ·
    1 day ago

    But it’s OK because Israel is a democracy. /s

    It’s funny how rare this argument has become, a few years ago politicians used it all the time, as if it was some kind of free pass to genocide, war crimes and discrimination.

    Just remember that “But it’s a democracy”, is not an argument for anything. USA is also a democracy, but that does not in any way justify their attacks on Iran either, or their blockade of Cuba, or all the dozens of other things they are doing that are against international law.

    • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      5 hours ago

      The US is manifestly not a democracy. When was the last time the working class, you know the group that makes up 90% of the population, actually held political power? No, all of the power is held by capitalists, who use it to enforce their system of authoritarian exploitation.

    • DaTingGoBrrr@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      15 hours ago

      Nothing can justify genocide or murdering random people at sea. Ever. It doesn’t matter who is doing it. The breaking of international law needs to have consequences.

      It seems like a lot of people today have a hard time to not justify atrocities.

      • zqps@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        3 hours ago

        In unrelated news: the Lybian “coast guard” is using their EU-provided ships in international waters to shoot at rescue ships and threaten to abduct the crew.

    • wpb@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      11 hours ago

      Just remember that “But it’s a democracy”, is not an argument for anything

      It’s also good to remember that not only is this not an argument for anything, but also the precondition of being a democracy is simply not met for pissrael. You cannot do apartheid and legitimately call yourself a democracy. There’s a couple million people within the dominion that pissrael rules over who simply cannot vote for the bodies that govern them. That’s not a democracy.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        10 hours ago

        You cannot do apartheid and legitimately call yourself a democracy.

        I absolutely agree on that. Weird I never thought about it when the claims were made.

      • zqps@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        3 hours ago

        Yeah because there’s not just a lack of evidence for the touted mass rapes or child beheadings, but actually solid evidence and witness testimony against them. We even know the guy who spread these falsehoods.

        Meanwhile the IOF is on camera using rape as a weapon of war against hostages, and on record defending it.

    • HugeNerd@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      20 hours ago

      But it’s OK because Israel is a democracy.

      Exactly Citizen! Good to see that the Raytheon CorrectThink rays have been beneficial! Looks like we don’t need to increase the beam strength after all.

    • Hapankaali@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      ·
      edit-2
      24 hours ago

      It requires a broad definition of democracy to consider either of those democracies. The V-Dem Institute puts both in the second tier of “electoral democracy” behind the “true” democracies, termed “liberal democracy.”

      From Wikipedia, the electoral democracies are those that:

      Regimes that possess the bare minimum to be considered a democracy. They are “de-facto accountable to citizens through periodic elections”, but are not liberal democracies and lack further entrenched individual and minority rights beyond the electoral sphere. Basic electoral democracies may not possess a fully developed rule of law, legislative and judicial oversight of the executive branch, protections against the “tyranny of the majority”, and only minimal fulfillment of Robert Dahl’s institutional prerequisites for democracy.[13]

      Both countries are also considered to be backsliding toward autocracy.

        • Hapankaali@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          14 hours ago

          Yes, by a broad definition. They can be considered democracies because elections, while not free and fair, are not directly rigged, opposition parties are allowed to contest them, and the press is partially free. Contrast this to a country like China or Russia, where elections are a sham, opposition is banned or controlled, and the press is tightly controlled by the government.

          I will say though that both V-Dem and the Economist are being somewhat generous. Considering recent events in Hungary, one could argue both countries should really rank lower than Hungary.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            13 hours ago

            I agree, and in Hungary Victor Orban had a lot of control of the media. That’s a pretty big part of being a democracy, that the press (media) is free.

            • zqps@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              3 hours ago

              In the US, corporate media is largely aligned with the Trump regime and journalists that dare to ask an actual question are denied access.

              • Buffalox@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                40 minutes ago

                Yes the media is very much controlled by the 1%. And Trump paid them back with heavy tax cuts for the 1%.

        • almost_genocide@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          19 hours ago

          According to the scoring since 2006 the United States index has dropped by a whole 0.57

          That seems highly suspect to me.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            13 hours ago

            I’m not sure what you mean? It has been the trajectory led mostly by the Republicans for decades.
            Gerrymandering, illegal surveillance by agencies and even the police, secret laws upheld in secret courts overseen by a tight group of political leaders that are used to silence the press. Sounds like a conspiracy, except Obama admitted it, and even called it a good balance! The Republican rigging of the supreme court.

            But maybe you mean it has dropped more?
            Because I think it has because of Trump, and I also think the score of 8.22 that places it as a full democracy is moronic, considering it’s a 2 party system with fpp voting. And USA has the highest number of prisoners, and they are not allowed to vote.
            Nixon actively made cannabis illegal to silence the peace movement. And it has been used since to also oppress minorities.

            The score has been consistently way to high.

            • almost_genocide@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              2 hours ago

              We’re in agreement. It seems way too high to begin with and dropping that little from Bush->Obama->Trump I->Biden->Trump II makes me think there’s some kind of bias at play.