I am seeing this pattern a lot lately, whenever a person disagrees strongly or expresses conservative/right wing views, they are told to go back to reddit.
You can say ‘Don’t bring these bullshit views to the fediverse,’ or something of that sort. I am a reddit refugee myself, and part of the Reddit API exodus. Being told to go someplace I just left due to ethical reasons feels bad. So, I want to understand why it is being used as a retort. Is it really rude, or am I making a fuss out of nothing?
Edit 1: I am NOT defending conservative views, I think that they should not be given a platform in the fediverse. I am questioning how telling them to go back to reddit is a valid response.
Edit2 : Edited the the title to better represent my question.
Redditors self-police their speech to fall in the window of acceptable debate. They are deeply brainwashed but have no idea of it because Reddit moderators ban anything not deemed “acceptable speech” by their media overlords. Hence they will spam the term “tankie” if someone for example tells them that killing the Iranian leader will only end up like killing Saddam in Iraq.
In the wise words of pedo-Zionist:
Somehow, it’s way easier to get banned here than over there, though.
Remember when CTH was banned for saying “kill slave owners”?
Ooooh I wanna try this.
Kill Slave Owners.
Murder Slave Owner.
Absolutely turbo murder kill slave owners in real life no cap.
It’s not if you know the forbidden Reddit terms. Try saying anything anti-Zionist on mainstream Reddit subs and you are banned in half a second by automated bots.
That actually got me a temp ban here once, as well.
It was even a nuanced “both sides are human” take, not Hamas is awesome. I know, I wasn’t expecting it for that either.
“Nuanced”Both sidesing in the face of a genocide? Condemning the oppressors and oppressed in equal measure? Do you not see the issue with that?I was trying to debunk someone pro-Israeli, so…
Both sidesing genocide is still bad even if you are “debunking” hard-line pro genociders. If your position is anything short of Israel shouldn’t exist it’s liberal Zionism. You should have nothing but support for the liberation movements of oppressed nations even if they don’t fit your pr standard.
Sure. Please explain that to whichever mod is the Zionist. Maybe I’ll actually speak against it again then.
Explains why they think lemmy is more ban happy than reddit. It certainly is, for genocide bothsiders.
not Hamas is awesome
Should have been perma
No, you misunderstand. I was arguing against a Zionist.
Short answer? It’s normally used against conservatives, but cliques and purity politics (both literal politics and not) do come into play on occasion.
Longer answer: Lemmy was originally founded by a bunch of Marxist-Leninists and socialists of similar stripes (that’s what the .ml stands for), and early adopters often made up some form of minority group/outcast - LGBTQ and the like. This has led to a very zero tolerance policy towards conservative “talking points” and the usual bag of tricks that they employ when attempting to colonize an area/group. Especially as Reddit has further enshitified, but even before then Redditors were generally thought of more in terms of r/the_Donald subscribers rather than as disparate groups from across the political spectrum.
There are of course the “joined Lemmy before it was cool” groups who resent the growing popularity of the platform - especially after the Reddit API exodus that brought you and me here - but I think they’re largely relegated to the parts of Lemmy that most of the instances defederated from. Some of those places are basically the leftist equivalent of 4chan, and would absolutely use it as an insult if you failed their political belief purity tests.
In short, basically everybody would use it for a Trumper, but a small few might use it on me if I were to say something like that I think that dbzer0’s support of genAI inherently makes the instance pro-corporatism so long as they’re the ones benefitting from stealing labor from workers, and an even smaller few would probably use it simply because I started using Lemmy during the Reddit API fiasco.
Longer answer: Lemmy was originally founded by a bunch of Marxist-Leninists and socialists of similar stripes (that’s what the .ml stands for)
Technically .ml stands for Mali, and was chosen because the domain is cheap. Ended up being a bit of a funny coincedence.
I’ve always seen that used in response to some insipid memey smuglord comeback behavior
It’s slightly less obvious than “log off”.
“conservative/right wing” views are basically nazi views. calling this mindset “different views” is like calling child rape “different tastes”–it starts and finishes as complete bullshit. it’s not a different view, it’s a fucking wrong view.
people with these “different views” are in support of a corrupt pedo rapist fascist fucking con man, and we just bombed a school full of children. there is no echo chamber in support of any of that here yet, and honestly, if/when that becomes the case, i’ll be going somewhere else.
also, are you a right winger, on .ml?
dude, chill. this is not how you convince someone right wing that they are wrong (if this was ever your goal). I thought Lemmy was supposed to be a place for discussions allowing both parties to make their statements. if we will just shit on right wing here this place won’t be much better than reddit is.
“Nazi pedophiles should have the right to explain their views and debate the merits of raping children and killing people for being different than them”
even if all of them are pedophiles, you need to talk to them if you want best for this country: you need to change people’s opinions through discussions. this is the only way. It’s other half of the country. if all of them are pedos then we won’t have enough prison cells.
I don’t understand why right and left just isolate themselves from each other: half goes to reddit, half goes to Lemmy. we need to have a platform where both parties can talk to each other and change others minds on things. and Lemmy is much more suited for that.
Most instances have rules against bigotry and exclusionary behaviour, which rules out a lot of “statements” from one side…
I’m sorry to say that you simply dont ever convince someone that theyre wrong. Especially online. In my opinion, the only hope this place has of being better than reddit is by not tolerating that ‘just asking questions’ shtick.
I didn’t mean to say that conservative views are just different views. I phrased my initial post badly, sorry. I mean to say that this retort is used also for differing views. A few days back, I was asked to go back to reddit because I questioned the US-limited view of politics. I don’t think my view was conservative. I was just thinking in what situations this retort is used.
you will find juvenile trolls on whatever platform you use, especially as more and more people join. fediverse is no exception. “go back to reddit” is the new “touch grass.” whatever rational explanation there may be for people lashing out probably isn’t worth the effort to understand. best advice is to ignore and/or block people who are making you read this much into their ranting.
They are simply different views. Don’t get swayed by the nuts around here. Ya just ignore their extremism and accept that genuine discourse on politics isn’t done here.
It’s great for everything else tho.
They are trying make lemmy like reddit and that’s why they act like buttheads.
I would guess that if your politics is based on selfishness, some might consider that antithetical to the idea of a fediverse.
Lemmy is older than the Reddit exodus, and historically had stricter moderation. When the exodus happened, the OG lemmy users saw the newcomers as rude at best, and various forms of bigots at worst. So ‘go back to Reddit’ is short-hand for ‘such talk is not welcome here’.
Yeah, but at that point it was pretty much a ghost town. The only acceptable commentary to some people is whatever they type to themselves.
But that is unironically reddit behavior to use such insulting and dismissive language rather than saying… “such talk is not welcome here”.
Immaturity shouldn’t be acceptable, even from the “correct” opinion holder.
It’s kind of typical human behavior. People love forming little groups and then wailing on any outsiders to them. It feels good.
Which is exactly why it shouldn’t be condoned or supported.
When your motivation doesn’t extend past stupid ape brain, you’re doing it wrong.
Yeah. The thing is, it’s the main emotional motivator there is here.
Your question basically amounts to “Why are people being excluded for holding exclusionary beliefs?”
I am sorry if I worded this post badly, but my question is why is this phrase ‘go to reddit’ is used? You can simply tell them that their problematic views are not welcome here. Downvote. Report the comment. Why use ‘Go to reddit’ as a slur?
it’s not a slur, it’s a signal that that the poster types like they’re on reddit.
Maybe it’s a feeling of resignation that there are people that’ll just stay the way they are, no matter what action you take.
Maybe it’s confusion; why did they even leave reddit if they just want to say reddit things?
Maybe it’s a defense mechanism, after becoming accustomed to people attacking you for your views on every other platform.
Maybe its maybelline?
I think the Right Wing Playbook series on Youtube explains very well why we shouldn’t suffer alt-right and fascist style argument anywhere. They are not in good faith and don’t contribute anything to the marketplace of ideas.
True conservative thought has a place but that is very very rare to see anymore.
“conservative” as a valid train of thought died with john mccain
“Conservative” as a valid train of thought never existed
They’re all rich men with delusions of grandeur who want to maneuver rubes into magical thinking about holy ideals and how cooperation is evil because it’s not what nature intended, so they can rob them blind for their own gain.
john mccain
The guy that sang Bomb bomb bomb Bomb bomb Iran?
No, they mean the guy from Die Hard
Look at it as a semi-creative variation on the theme of “go to hell.”
They seem to have a reddit user mentality but are using “go back to reddit” as some sort of superiority feign, would be my guess.
.ml being the biggest user of that phrase
To be fair, Lemmy.ml is the dev instance, and Lemmy was made very specifically to not have the problems Reddit has.
Some even fight you if you share the same views here. As long as dialogue is civil and respectful everyone should be welcome to their opinion.
Dialogue is a big part. I think the thing I have noticed in the internet is the reduction of red vs blue. Old vrs young. Left vs Right…etc etc
This seems to encourage a right vrs wrong arguments or a virtuous points scoring system. Deploying a dog whistle slogans is a tactic of either side of this
I view it as an effort to shut down the other side rather than hold dialogue and debate.
It’s hard to find common grounds between opposing views, but the least we can do is just accept that the other exists and each to their own. But these days we’re past dialogue unfortunately. It’s full on war, on all sides: religious, political, gender, race, class…
Edit 1: I am NOT defending conservative views, I think that they should not be given a platform in the fediverse.
So you’d rather eliminate their voice to conserve the status quo here?
Are you sure you’re NOT doing that?
Don’t ”paradox of tolerance” this shit, you know we shouldn’t allow hateful rhetoric here. It’s the reason all the other platforms are fucking terrible now.
Hold up, isn’t that exactly the Paradox of tolerance, though? We cannot tolerate the intolerant conservatives in order to maintain a tolerant fediverse.
Yes, though as the person you’re responding to is trying to point out, using the Paradox of Tolerance to tolerate the intolerable because of some appeal to hypocrisy is exactly not how to use the paradox of tolerance.
While hypocrisy is an important part of the lessons to take from it, the hypocrisy parts are supposed to be about not stooping to their level in the process of not tolerating them as opposed to having to tolerate them.
Ahhh I think I misunderstood how they thought the Paradox of Tolerance was being applied.
Nah, this was a bit nebulous of a discussion since the original comment wasn’t exactly spelling out their intent.
After a few more replies, it looks like they weren’t trying to say bad ideologies should be tolerated in any form, more of just saying the, “go back to reddit” stuff is indeed stooping to a low that only the too intolerant use.
In the off-chance that someone is merely parroting bigotry/ideology that they were awash in and don’t truly believe, it is always better to tell them off in ways that don’t tokenize and reduce them to a charicature of the ideology. Especially don’t dismiss them in ways that allow them to dismiss you just as easily. “Go back to reddit” is tokenizing your own response, which just fuels division and enlightens noone.
I’d rather offer refutations and sound cogent counter-arguments, than leave them to run off unchallenged, doubling down with a sense of being right and up against the evil censors, conspiring in whatever echo chamber of bigotry they then find themselves welcomed to.
Only problem with that is these people aren’t capable of understanding refutations and cogent counter arguments. Allowing them on a platform automatically turns the platform into an echo chamber of bigotry that they make themselves welcome in
You think they are going to read your cogent counter-argument?
More chance of that if offered, than not.
Look back at the last 10 years of trying that. You don’t play chess with pigeons.
[Has worked quite well for me. Though I couldn’t put numbers on it, like Daryl Davis can. They’re not pigeons. That’s a flawed analogy, only further revealing your confirmation bias and dehumanising prejudice.]
I guess we should tell Daryl Davis to stop too, similarly citing the past years of having doing so proving to work well, and just continue to dehumanise and smear those he’d speak to, as beyond help, and ignore the hundreds he’s converted from the KKK and Nazi party, by just talking with them.
Or… maybe try it, persistently, non-hostile, not becoming them, not reaffirming their noxious combative ways back to them, instead of just hatefully dehumanising them, instead of reaffirming to them that they are their rotten ideas, instead of censoring and isolating and banning them to their echo chamber and you to yours, instead of all that polarising groupthink nonsense, just keep exposing them to better ways of being, and seeing that neither you, nor any of the targets of their misguided hate, are the monsters they imagine in their ignorance.
