When I was working as an intern the company was into a group called PSI Seminars.
They are also into Tony Robbins.
When I didn’t finish PSI Basic everything changed. I had no future there.
How can I explain to a future potential employer that my last employer was in a cult without looking unprofessional?
I highly think they are going to throw me under the bus if used as a reference.
Did you attend any. meetings? What makes them worse than standard fare?
I’m not negating you, the website just doesn’t shed much light on what makes them different.
I attempted to attend PSI Basic which is on the weekend. Three 10 hour days. On the second day I was feeling really fatigued so I just went home and slept nine hours. Two days later I came down with a cold or flu. I think they wanted me to persevere and will my mind to continue on.
You worked there as an intern? In your field, do people expect to move from intern to full-time employee? If not, “the internship ended.”
I am going to go against the grain of conventional advice and say you should just outline it like you did here. I have been in the position of hiring people before. I much prefer to know the real reason why someone left a company. Granted, if someone says “my boss was an asshole”, I would probably just see that as likely making excuses. But, if someone says “I left because I was subjected to verbal and emotional harassment by my boss, and if you want me to provide specific examples I can do so”, that’s actually information I would prefer to know. I think your situation falls into that later example for sure.
The idea that you should never speak ill of a former employer regardless of the circumstances IMO is bad advice.
In general it really does depend on the interviewer. I was honest and open about how my new manager at my last job fucked over the team and myself, with specific details, and it led to good conversations during the interview process for the place I’m at now.
Yes, I think my advice applies more to an interview than something you would put down on paper on a questionnaire.
Maybe for small time employers, but I feel like big companies don’t care because there’s too many applicants. As in, between two equal candidates, they’ll take the one that sounds “unproblematic.”
That is refreshing to hear. Thanks.
“it wasn’t a good cultural fit, I’m looking for someone more dynamic/insert whatever you think the new company has”
“There weren’t any growth opportunities, I didn’t want to stagnate”.
Something where instead of complaining about the other company, you show that you want to be a good employee and seek growth opportunities, yada yada
The cultural fit in particular I like to use. This is often thrown around as a catch-all term by companies when they don’t want to hire you for a bunch of bullshit reasons they don’t want to disclose to you. It’s only fair you weaponise too.
Had to use it recently to reject an offer and to avoid saying: “the person who would be my manager seemed like a gigantic dickhead and I barely made it the hour without slamming my monitor against the wall”. Although part of me wish I had said that.
Yep, this approach exactly.
You can just check yourself if they are going to throw you under the bus. Call up and pretend to be some other business doing a reference check on you. If they tell you anything defaming, sue. If you are somewhere with one-party consent, record the call.
This is good advice. However (more toward OP), be advised that call recording laws like “two-party consent” (which means both parties must agree to the call) only means the call cannot be admissible in court if recorded improperly, not that you can’t record it or that the recording is illegal.
A lot of companies with numbers you can call will say that the call may be recorded, regardless of where you call from. This is good because it covers their side of the consent. They cannot legally only consent to their own recording. Even in a state with one-party consent, once they consent to their own recording, if you record that, they just consented to yours. They might fight this if it goes to trial (it won’t), but if you are in a one-party consent area, you can argue that you can disagree with being recorded and still have a right to call if you have business with them. They will argue and say your consent is absolute because you stayed on the line. If they say that, they’re fucked — their consent becomes absolute as well. “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander” for the most part. Also, with an iPhone, when you start recording, it plays a similar message. If you do that while they have you on hold, they won’t record it, but it will be recorded on your end. They can’t say “you played the warning while you were on hold, we couldn’t hear it” because then you could say you couldn’t hear their warning while you were on hold. After all, some smartphones handle hold for you, alerting you when a human comes on the line. Therefore, if you did not hear the warning and it’s still valid, the same is true for them.
Alternatively, be more honest and start the recording when a human gets on the line. If they refuse to continue the conversation, you can at least assume they are up to no good. That should tell you all you need to know.
how long was it and do you have anything else experience wise in your resume?
I have other internship experience.
so @trainguyrom@reddthat.com has it right. internships are not expected to be long. When asked just say the internship ended unless it was less than a semester in time.
This is the real consideration, depending on your career so far, such a role might be easier just left off the resume. But they did say it was an internship so they likely have no good career experience to speak for. Personally, I’d aim for purely talking about the experience and just say that “the internship ended”
I missed that and agree with you. Internships are generally supposed to be a semester getting some experience so no reason to just not say it ended.
A lot of places don’t actually do real references. They will say that you worked there and give no opinions on you as a worker, because they don’t want to risk getting sued for you not getting the job. Not sure if that helps you worry less. As far as the cultiness, I wouldn’t mention it. I’d come up with a more BS excuse that flatters the potential employer without insulting the previous one. Unfortunately, I’ve been a SAHM for too long and can’t think of any examples for you…
I think a lot of companies operate on similar principles to a cult. When it benefits them, they say they are like a family. When it doesn’t, know you can be replaced in an instant. People who don’t have a life outside of work, or they do but it involves people from work almost exclusively. And companies that have cult-like ideas or ideals. Even some aspects of professionalism (such as dress code or uniforms) are cult-like in nature. The military sees value in dehumanising people, by making them simple cogs in the machine, and private industry likes to emulate this.
The question is, can you leave? A true cult won’t let you. That’s the difference with a lot of companies. If you get out, you are basically out. They may not re-hire you, but they shouldn’t interfere with your life beyond that point. Cults absolutely will.
They are part of an LGAT which is cult like. I left already without finishing the internship.
I started reading wikipedia articles to figure out what all that is, and I still don’t get it lol. Honestly, I’d try not to get too into the weeds - it might derail the interview into trying to explain all this.
A reference is usually just to confirm the dates you worked there. They can’t badmouth you.
They shouldn’t, but they can.
It’s a really bad idea for them to do so.
meh. small employers and cults are more likely to. you can try to sue them but its not easy.
They can’t badmouth you.
the law isn’t some binding geass cast on us all at birth forcing compliance in all acts
Had a similar situation happen at one of my old workplaces. Super culty. You’ll survive.
In addition to what others said (namely, that companies tend not to give “references” anymore, but instead give “verification”, which is where they confirm the dates of employment), if you need references, I recommend getting coworkers who liked you to write a letter of recommendation and send it directly to you for you to include with your job applications.
You can whip up a “letter of recommendation” template to send to your work friends, then just ask them not to include a date on their letter. I’ve been reusing some old letters of recommendation for years and future employers seem to appreciate that I include them in my app.
Step 1: probe what they think of Tony Robbins
