Having lived in the UK and even participated in a politics there (as a member of the Greenparty, FYI) it seems to me that both the English’s power elites’ support of an ethno-Fascist regime abroad even while it activelly commits Genocide (reminiscent of Thatcher’s support of Apartheid South Africa and of Pinochet in Chile) and their authoritarian solutions to Environmentalism as a “problem” of people demonstrating rather than the Environment being destroyed, are all part of a broader pattern of Rightwing Authroritarianism were also fit things like the extreme Civil Society Surveillance denounced by Snowden (which, curiously, whilst in the US some was deemed unconstitutionally and walked back, in the UK laws were passed to make it all retroactively legal and the Press was shut up using D-Notices) and other general trends in the exercise of power in the country (remember how the Tories passed a law that de facto created minimum £1000 penalties in all criminal cases).

This is not even new - Environmentalist organisations were infiltrated by undercover police back in the 80s/90s who even left some women there carrying their children and things like kettling were used against demonstrators back in the big anti-Finance and anti-Austerity demonstrations in London after the 2008 Crash were even an unarmed and non-violent person got killed by a police officer (a case were the officer in question ultimatelly got out with no meaningful penalty).

Brexit wasn’t born in a vacuum and compared with the rest of Europe the UK has been further Right and more Authoritarian, copying the worst bits of the American system rather than the best and mixing them with a heavily and well entrenched classism and the idea that people should know their place, with no tradition of rule by consensus and an electoral system - First Past The Post - that generally results in Winner Takes All outcomes were a mere 35% of votes is enough for absolute majorities which are pretty much all powerful since Britain foesn’t have a written Constitution.

Having lived in a few countries in Europe, I came out of over a decade in the UK with the idea that it was the country in Europe most likely to turn Fascist. A posh style of Fascism but Fascism none the less.

Sadly New Labour, who ideologically are something else altogether than (old) Labour, seem just as prone to Authoritarianism as the Tories, which actually makes sense given that it was during New Labour’s last period in Government that the most extreme civil society surveillance apparatus in the West was built in Britain.

TL;DR in summary, Britain even under New Labour is very rightwing and riddled with authoritarianism and their unwavering support (once again) for violent Fascism abroad fits the pattern and is a nice reminder of how its power elites think.

Nice, an Appeal To Absurd Falacy in the wild.

Hadn’t see one of those in a day or two.

It says a lot that you went for making fantastical claims about the messenger rather than for disproving the message.

Well, that’s the funny bit: the government in the UK aren’t the Conservatives, they’re New Labour who are Neoliberals, by the standards of the rest of Europe they’re even Hard Neoliberals.

Nowadays the difference between Conservatives and Liberals is really just the subset of Morality that’s used in Identity Politics. They’re certainly not different on Economics, not on Quality Of Life for the many, not on a good Future for our Children (which provides a Selfishness-driven reason be an Environmentalist, which is better than nothing) and certainly not on Environmentalism as a Moral posture.

We get some loud confrontational bullshit from both around various “-isms” all the while they’re both doing what’s best for the most wealthy of society and screw the rest (both present and future) and definitely screw anybody or anything that has no money and no capability for action, such as Nature.

You see that exact same shit in the US, by they way, as well as (in not quite as extreme form) in most of Europe.

Meanwhile the UK still keeps on sending weapon shipments to an actively Genocidal Israel (they recently stopped but 20 out of 300 kinds of such exports).

It didn’t took long to disprove the hopes of anybody who thought New Labour would be anything but a slightly less hard Right than the Tories.

Certain countries, such as the one where The Guardian is based, have long been infiltrating, surveilling and even using anti-Terrorism legislation against Ecologist groups.

They treat Far-Right extremism significantly more mildly than Environmentalism.

Every Friend Of Israel US Congressman and UK PM is by definition a Traitor (as are any other members of a governing body anywhere that represent a foreign power).

Getting rid of the traitors working for foreign powers within US Politics is how you start solving this problem.

They wanted to keep the juicy margins of SUVs whilst being forced (whist bitching and moaning all the way) to transition to EV technology, so ended up pushing EV SUVs.

Their EVs are expensive mainly because of them targeting higher market segments instead of making an “EV for the people”, all the while that was exactly what most Chinese car-makers were aiming for.

The “great industrial leaders” heading these companies have been protected and mollycoddled by the German State, especially at the time of the Emissions Scandal (were the only person to get convicted was a lowly Engineer), so they interiorised well the “we’re too big to fail” message and proceeded to go into full-on extractive mode in the full knowledge that no matter what the German and even European taxpayer will pay for saving their mismanaged and bled dry companies.

The result is entirely what invariably happens in such situations.

Worry not! Biden will expedite a new weapon shipment to replace the bullets used by the brave Israeli soldiers protecting their great nation from that evil Hamas-loving antisemite!

In all appearances a totally symbolic something with no real impact, so probably just pure public opinion management.

That’s because his talk doesn’t match his walk.

You know how Trump just shamelessly lies as easily as he breaths? Well Biden also massively lies, he’s just far more sophisticated at it than Trump (hardly a tall barrier, lets be honest) hence less obvious at it yet in the end you still see his the actual actions or the end result of them (when the deceit technique is to pass know impossible measures or just half of what’s needed and not the other requires half so those measures don’t actually do what it says on the tin) not matching his words.

Let’s hope Kamala is much less of a liar.

New Labour politicians have a massive debt to Israeli-linked Jewish Groups in the UK for the Anti-Semitism slander campaign against Corbyn and the Labour Party during his leadership that lost Labour an election and brought him down as leader of the party to be replaced by a New Labour leader (who promptly started a pogrom against Leftwingers in the party).

Of course, as is tradition in England (and because in the recent elections they lost 10 Parliament seats to people who campaigned as independents exactly because of New Labour’s pro-Zionist “No Genocide is too great” policies), they’re doing a bit public opinion management with a loudly announced measure that de facto does nothing.

If there’s one thing that over a decade of living in Britain has taught me was to always look behind the curtain when it comes to grand very public gestures by the local politicians, the more the noise they make about their “great measure” the more the need to dig out the part of the story they’re not telling people about.

Your whole post that started this thread is:

absolutely love how tankies in here are somehow turning this around to be Israels fault

So just now you outright lied when your wrote:

I just stated neutrally that “Hamas killing civillians is Bad and none other than Hamas’ fault.”

Further, a person with a bunch of flags on their profile (for the record and in case you change it the flags are of Ukranie, EU, Taiwan and Israel) claiming they’re not about “teams” is either a ridiculously self-deluded person or a shameless liar. People don’t go around parading their favorite nations or blocks of nations when they’re not into supporting “teams”.

I’m pretty sure there will be some who will refuse to vote or vote for an independent, hence not voting for Israel to commit Genocide. It’s likely that some of those have come to believe that China too is commiting a Genocide.

I doubt it be a majority or even a significant minority, but there really is no physical or psychological reason that out of 240 million or so Americans of voting age there aren’t some who fullfil all of those criteria you claim to be impossible to find together.

I think you’re seeing some louder individuals commenting on political comments sections on the internet who talk about the “Chinese Genocide” and who talk about people having a duty to “vote Democrat to stop Trump” (hence de facto voting for Israel to commit genocide) and you think “they’re all like data” whilst not noticing that lots of people make one kind of comment or the other kind of comment but not both.

(This is actual quite a common perceptual flaw for humans and why Science has such strict rules when conducting experiments: people tend to notice that which confirms what they already believe also tend to notice when something happens but NOT notice when something does not happen).

Mind you, if you had said “most people” I would tend to agree with you, but you instead used a word which means 100% of people (“anyone”) and claims about people are almost never true for 100% or 0% of individuals in a large enough group.

You assumed wrong.

My position on the Uyghurs in China is “I don’t know for sure because the information space about this in the West is too poluted by propaganda”. That is neither a “Yes”, nor a “No”, it’s a “I’m not well informed enough to judge”.

(It’s funny because I’m a member of a small Leftwing party in my own country and during voting in the National Conference was one of the few people who would actually Abstrain on some votes - rather than always Approve or Deny - because I avoid taking a stand if I feel I don’t know enough to have an informed opinion).

Mind you, I would like a proper and impartial Human Rights Court investigation on this to clear all the bullshit flying around and IF it is a Genocide, for it to be stopped and the guilty parts punished.

It’s a very traditional Fascist technique (not only theirs but, damn, they do love it), to deem criticism of their actions to be motivated by the critics supporting an “enemy” side.

I’m not certain if that’s because they’re intellectually or emotionally unable to conceive that people can judge words and actions without putting “side” as the top criteria and hence will criticize equally what they see as wrong and point out relentless lying from specifc actors independently of “side”, if that’s because that’s just the kind of argumentation Fascists get indoctrinated/teached to use, or both.

There is no inconsistency in their posture towards Russia and their posture towards Israel for somebody unable to conceive of any judgement criteria more important than “what is their side”, since for them tribe is more important than everything and thus excuses everything, even mass murder of chidren.

Unsusprisingly, Zionist arguments are incredibly similar to the ones from the Nazis, including this beautiful example I commented on in my previous post, were the critics were deemed to be Communists, EXACTLY LIKE THE NAZIS used to do.

You’re the one spouting tribalist shit - clearly you see Zionists as “your” people.

Tribalists always think those who are against the actions of “their” group or do not trust the words from the leaders of "their"group must do so because they support some “other”, enemy people - a posture you consistently displayed in the way you tried “othering” critics of your favorite mass murderers on your first post by accusing them of being Authoritarian Communists and are trying to do the same to me on this post by implying I support Hamas.

Either you’re too limited in your humanity to be aware that normal human beings generally hold Humanist Principles which are independent of tribe (such as “though shall not mass murder people because of their ethnicity”) and hence their criticism is based on the character the words and actions of those they criticise (rather than be like you and put “side” above everything else including one’s humanity), or you’re just too lazy and repeatedly use the very old, very traditional Fascist “line of attack” (especially beloved of ethno-Facists such as Nazis and Zionists) of accusing critics of being part of some “out group” which the Fascists deem an enemy.

Apparently nowadays anybody who’s not a full blown Genocidal ethno-Fascist who approves when “their” people mass murder “human animal” children is a tankie.

It’s like how anything left of center used to be deemed Communism in America, with the main difference that this is the ethno-Fascist (the most far-right violent kind of ideology there is) version so anything less than strong approval of ethnic Genocide is deemed Tankie.

You’re assuming way too much about everybody, including me.

Clearly if it was “all” (and that’s just if that “all” is only for Americans) the Democrats’ poll numbers would not have gone up when Joe Biden was replaced by Kamala Harris.

If you go more broadly than just America, in most of Europe for example people do have more voting options than Fascists and ethno-Fascist supporters, so that “all” would be even more distant from reality than just counting Lemmy users from the US.

Further, this is Lemmy, which is much more to the Left than pretty much all general (i.e. not specific to a certain political ideology) social media.

Also and more as a general coment, when people use “all”, “always”, “never”, “everybody”, “nobody” and other statements about 100% or 0% of people doing something, it’s almost always a prejudiced false statement. I’m pretty sure we can find plenty of people even in countries with fake-Democracies with no real choices that would rather refrain from participating altogether rather than vote for somebody who supports Genocidal ethno-Fascists.

Don’t get me wrong: I did plenty of arguing against people here defending that Americans should vote for the ethno-Fascism lover to defeat the wannabe-Fascist, but presuming they’re “all” like those American defending that most Max Grouchian take on Principles (“These are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others”) is a very prejudiced take, IMHO.