I like how you just stated that Marxist “nonsense” will succumb to the same issues as capitalism, with no qualifications or real justifications, and instead are arguing for idealism and a rejection of science and understanding.
The evil tyranny of science vs the proud rebellion of the Flat Earth Society?
I understand the desire for spirituality. I’m not some Reddit atheist that claims to be on a war against religion. In my view, religion is something that will likely gradually fade, and doesn’t need to be directly fought against. What I don’t like is when people use spirituality as a cudgel against science, and use it as the basis for arguing against a better world. Religion has been weaponized against queer folk like me, women, ethnic minorities, etc, and have lobbed attacks against science for centuries.
I answered your strawman with something equally dishonest. I’m not interested in getting into a debate with someone who genuinely believes matter does not exist outside of consciousness and fully believes in idealism, rejecting materialism. There’s absolutely no evidence for ideas being primary over matter, and moreover all it does is open up the way for absurdities and fantasy to exist as equals to hard science. Materialism helps us genuinely understand and interpret the world, each successive year affirming its utility as science expands and we understand more and more. Idealism is a willing rejection of understanding to entertain the idea of fantasy.
Nah, not going to waste my time entertaining justifications for belief in the unprovable. I already told you, I’m not here to debate like a Reddit atheist, I just wanted to address your absurd strawman in the beginning. Thoughts are products of the brain, not of some idealist “soul” or other analogue. Matter is objective, measurable, and knowable, through scientific analysis and repeated testing. It isn’t subjective.
You reject materialism, then ask for a materialist (science is materialist, it is the measuring and understanding of mater) proof of materialism. Nonsense.
Materialism was historically just one way of understanding the world. Over time, it got accepted more and more because it could make testable (and useful) predictions, and they turned out to be right.
And it’s something you’ve been conditioned to believe in since birth.
Because it works.
Socialists, communists etc. still rely on materialism to drive their ideology
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I like how you just stated that Marxist “nonsense” will succumb to the same issues as capitalism, with no qualifications or real justifications, and instead are arguing for idealism and a rejection of science and understanding.
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The evil tyranny of science vs the proud rebellion of the Flat Earth Society?
I understand the desire for spirituality. I’m not some Reddit atheist that claims to be on a war against religion. In my view, religion is something that will likely gradually fade, and doesn’t need to be directly fought against. What I don’t like is when people use spirituality as a cudgel against science, and use it as the basis for arguing against a better world. Religion has been weaponized against queer folk like me, women, ethnic minorities, etc, and have lobbed attacks against science for centuries.
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I answered your strawman with something equally dishonest. I’m not interested in getting into a debate with someone who genuinely believes matter does not exist outside of consciousness and fully believes in idealism, rejecting materialism. There’s absolutely no evidence for ideas being primary over matter, and moreover all it does is open up the way for absurdities and fantasy to exist as equals to hard science. Materialism helps us genuinely understand and interpret the world, each successive year affirming its utility as science expands and we understand more and more. Idealism is a willing rejection of understanding to entertain the idea of fantasy.
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Nah, not going to waste my time entertaining justifications for belief in the unprovable. I already told you, I’m not here to debate like a Reddit atheist, I just wanted to address your absurd strawman in the beginning. Thoughts are products of the brain, not of some idealist “soul” or other analogue. Matter is objective, measurable, and knowable, through scientific analysis and repeated testing. It isn’t subjective.
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You reject materialism, then ask for a materialist (science is materialist, it is the measuring and understanding of mater) proof of materialism. Nonsense.
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Friend, with all respect, only one in this conversation is intent on pushing their perspective.
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I’m reminded of The Preacher and the Slave by Joe Hill. The pie in the sky is a lie. Everyone needs to eat. Religion does not feed people.
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Materialism was historically just one way of understanding the world. Over time, it got accepted more and more because it could make testable (and useful) predictions, and they turned out to be right.
Because it works.
Because it works.