they have all the manufacturing there, I’m sure all the parts are dirt cheap for them if you don’t ship em cross ocean.
I’m not sure about china paying for you to buy them, many countries counter that with tariffs. I think those prices are close to natural prices given the enormous scale of china and nearby markets.
Yes, the tariffs counter the artificially low price. At least on the more expensive models, as tariffs aren’t a flat fee per car like the subsidies. You’re then still left with a workforce that’s paid about a third if not a quarter of what they’d be paid in some European countries that manufacture cars.
If we really wanted European EVs to be competitive with Chinese, unions need to be abolished and wages lowered. Unfortunately, we ALSO want people to have good living conditions, so that’s sort of a no-go.
Okay, now add the labour of every other step of the process too. The 15% is at VW’s own factory. But they buy parts from, among others, Bosch and ZF who also have employees producing the parts.
Then also add the labour costs for R&D. BYD’s average employee salary in China, including everyone from manufacturing to design to engineering to leadership, was less than half of what the manufacturing plant employees make at VW’s German plants and still significantly less than the Bratislava plant. Only top level leadership at BYD gets high salaries.
Which is why VW has been fighting the IG Metall union for the right to close down plants they can’t afford to run because their cars aren’t expensive enough to be profitable at these labour costs.
It’s gonna suck for everyone involved, but that’s just what you have to accept if the biggest economy in the world has both super cheap labour AND manufacturing subsidies. It’s game over for everyone else unless people are willing to take a major pay cut.
Are you implying Chinese people do not have good living conditions?
I have been in China only a few months working on the assembly line. Work was long and tough, but the pay was good and they’d give you free housing and food. Plenty other workplaces were available if you wanted to work less hours.
China has universal healthcare, at many tiers from zero to half co-pay.
Pension Insurance: Provides retirement benefits after a required number of contribution years (typically 15 accumulative years).
Medical Insurance: Covers healthcare costs. In many cities, this is combined with Maternity Insurance.
Work-Related Injury Insurance (Workers’ Compensation): Covers medical expenses, rehabilitation, and disability compensation for occupational illnesses or workplace accidents.
Unemployment Insurance: Provides financial support if you are laid off.
Housing Provident Fund (HPF): A mandatory savings account where both the employer and employee contribute, which can be withdrawn for housing-related expenses like buying or renting a home.
That was 14 hours a day 6 days a week. It was non specialized jobs mostly filled by people getting their first job moving from the farms to the cities. Many people changed job within the first year. 40 hours work weeks were available.
Regarding work safety, factories I visited were quite good, modern equipment and practices. I have seen machinery being used quite commonly which would elsewhere be considered highly specialized.
Not sure about free healthcare, I did not get to need the hospital.
I’m not saying it’s the best country in the world, but in general the people I met were happy and enjoyed a good life without many problems.
Eu should have taken on Putin’s offer while it was being offered - Europe from Lisbon till Vladivostok. Free energy in exchange for technology. Is my opinion. And now it’s just too late for both. China is one global winner in all areas .
Lisbon to Vladivostok is a Russian ambition for sure, but not one of partnership lmao, it’s an imperial ambition going back to the actual Russian Empire.
they have all the manufacturing there, I’m sure all the parts are dirt cheap for them if you don’t ship em cross ocean.
I’m not sure about china paying for you to buy them, many countries counter that with tariffs. I think those prices are close to natural prices given the enormous scale of china and nearby markets.
Yes, the tariffs counter the artificially low price. At least on the more expensive models, as tariffs aren’t a flat fee per car like the subsidies. You’re then still left with a workforce that’s paid about a third if not a quarter of what they’d be paid in some European countries that manufacture cars.
If we really wanted European EVs to be competitive with Chinese, unions need to be abolished and wages lowered. Unfortunately, we ALSO want people to have good living conditions, so that’s sort of a no-go.
ChatGPT says 10-15% of the cost of a typical car is labor
So that would give Chinese manufactured vehicles a 6-10% price advantage
We wish
Okay, now add the labour of every other step of the process too. The 15% is at VW’s own factory. But they buy parts from, among others, Bosch and ZF who also have employees producing the parts.
Then also add the labour costs for R&D. BYD’s average employee salary in China, including everyone from manufacturing to design to engineering to leadership, was less than half of what the manufacturing plant employees make at VW’s German plants and still significantly less than the Bratislava plant. Only top level leadership at BYD gets high salaries.
Which is why VW has been fighting the IG Metall union for the right to close down plants they can’t afford to run because their cars aren’t expensive enough to be profitable at these labour costs.
It’s gonna suck for everyone involved, but that’s just what you have to accept if the biggest economy in the world has both super cheap labour AND manufacturing subsidies. It’s game over for everyone else unless people are willing to take a major pay cut.
Are you implying Chinese people do not have good living conditions?
I have been in China only a few months working on the assembly line. Work was long and tough, but the pay was good and they’d give you free housing and food. Plenty other workplaces were available if you wanted to work less hours.
look at the squalor!
Yes, surely the manufacturing plant employees live in downtown high-rise buildings next to a beautiful park.
Do you want me to post a photo of Central Park or Times Square? That certainly shows how the American manufacturing employees live.
How many hours is that about? They don’t have 40 hr limit? How about work safety and health insurance? Free healthcare right?
China has universal healthcare, at many tiers from zero to half co-pay.
Pension Insurance: Provides retirement benefits after a required number of contribution years (typically 15 accumulative years).
Medical Insurance: Covers healthcare costs. In many cities, this is combined with Maternity Insurance.
Work-Related Injury Insurance (Workers’ Compensation): Covers medical expenses, rehabilitation, and disability compensation for occupational illnesses or workplace accidents.
Unemployment Insurance: Provides financial support if you are laid off.
Housing Provident Fund (HPF): A mandatory savings account where both the employer and employee contribute, which can be withdrawn for housing-related expenses like buying or renting a home.
Ew that sounds like the American system. Disgusting.
That was 14 hours a day 6 days a week. It was non specialized jobs mostly filled by people getting their first job moving from the farms to the cities. Many people changed job within the first year. 40 hours work weeks were available. Regarding work safety, factories I visited were quite good, modern equipment and practices. I have seen machinery being used quite commonly which would elsewhere be considered highly specialized. Not sure about free healthcare, I did not get to need the hospital.
I’m not saying it’s the best country in the world, but in general the people I met were happy and enjoyed a good life without many problems.
Eu should have taken on Putin’s offer while it was being offered - Europe from Lisbon till Vladivostok. Free energy in exchange for technology. Is my opinion. And now it’s just too late for both. China is one global winner in all areas .
https://journal-neo.su/2025/09/08/from-vladivostok-to-lisbon-a-counterfactual-geopolitical-analysis-of-eurasias-unchosen-path/
Yea sorry, most of us don’t want to live under Russian rule.
I don’t think there was a rule in that partnership. And look at it - eu industry is fucking dead.
Lisbon to Vladivostok is a Russian ambition for sure, but not one of partnership lmao, it’s an imperial ambition going back to the actual Russian Empire.