This is about social liberalism not economic. The opposite of which is conservatism and repression. I don’t think you’re arguing for the cause you think you’re arguing for here.
Orbán’s loss brings to an end the assumption of inevitability that has pervaded the MAGA movement, as well as the belief—also present in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s rhetoric—that illiberal parties are somehow destined not just to win but to hold power forever, because they have the support of the “real” people
After 16 years of what Orbán himself described as an illiberal regime
There’s no way Putin and Orban would say “liberalism bad” and mean the economic system. Putin for sure wants the Russian people to believe that their economic system is liberal in the classical sense, not mostly under his personal control. Same with Orban. There’s probably no real appetite for socialism yet in these countries, because they lived through the USSR. I know here in Estonia at least, socialism is still a dirty word.
Similarly, the MAGA movement. They’ve been spouting all kinds of shit about liberals for a decade now. If you’ve paid any attention at all, “liberal” to them means a blue haired lesbian or whatever. Not even a member of the liberal party, let alone someone who supports the liberal economic system - because by that measure, the American conservatives themselves would be liberals.
What you call liberalism would nowadays be best called liberal capitalism or something like that. Laissez-faire capitalism if talking about it in its most extreme form. Because the word liberalism just doesn’t mean that anymore. The far left are the only people using it that way nowadays.
What do Putin, Orban and the entirety of MAGA have in common, besides looting their countries? Bigotry. When they talk about liberalism and liberals in a negative manner, that’s them using a certain image of “liberals” stuck in peoples’ brains as a boogeyman.
This is what Putin, Orban and the entirety of MAGA want you to believe a liberal is:
This is an entirely different “liberal” from what you’re talking about (and of course the image which I got from some youtube thumbnail is a caricature meant to disparage this type of liberal, you’re supposed to believe that liberals are all crazy SJWs or whatever).
No, it’s about liberal democracy vs illiberal democracy. Liberal democracy gives you the option to vote for different parties in fair elections, separation of power, rule of law and so on. Both conservatism and social liberalism can work within a liberal democracy.
Orbán’s loss brings to an end the assumption of inevitability that has pervaded the MAGA movement, as well as the belief—also present in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s rhetoric—that illiberal parties are somehow destined not just to win but to hold power forever, because they have the support of the “real” people.
This part is almost definitely not referring just to unfair elections because I doubt anyone thinks that the “real” people support that. Rather, it’s common to play to the fears of these “real” people: immigrants will steal your job and also be lazy and live off benefits and they’ll also murder, rape and pillage. The gay liberals will make heterosex illegal. Etc. Orban was pushing this, Putin is pushing this, EKRE in my country has beeb pushing this, GOP has been pushing this forever. And the narrative usually pits these “bad” others against “real” hard-working folks, as if the gays and foreigners are going to be a huge danger to them and everything they hold dear.
This is about social liberalism not economic. The opposite of which is conservatism and repression. I don’t think you’re arguing for the cause you think you’re arguing for here.
I am against all form of liberalism.
Right on! Burn the LGBT folks and minorities!
I have a white cloak for you.
strawman
I have explained this in several comments by now:
Liberalism in Eastern Europe stands for not being a bigot.
By saying you’re against all form of liberalism in the context of an Eastern European election, it means you’re essentially pro-MAGA.
Oh then maybe thats why you misunderstood me, nvm.
Or you misunderstood what the article is saying.
There’s no way Putin and Orban would say “liberalism bad” and mean the economic system. Putin for sure wants the Russian people to believe that their economic system is liberal in the classical sense, not mostly under his personal control. Same with Orban. There’s probably no real appetite for socialism yet in these countries, because they lived through the USSR. I know here in Estonia at least, socialism is still a dirty word.
Similarly, the MAGA movement. They’ve been spouting all kinds of shit about liberals for a decade now. If you’ve paid any attention at all, “liberal” to them means a blue haired lesbian or whatever. Not even a member of the liberal party, let alone someone who supports the liberal economic system - because by that measure, the American conservatives themselves would be liberals.
What you call liberalism would nowadays be best called liberal capitalism or something like that. Laissez-faire capitalism if talking about it in its most extreme form. Because the word liberalism just doesn’t mean that anymore. The far left are the only people using it that way nowadays.
What do Putin, Orban and the entirety of MAGA have in common, besides looting their countries? Bigotry. When they talk about liberalism and liberals in a negative manner, that’s them using a certain image of “liberals” stuck in peoples’ brains as a boogeyman.
This is what Putin, Orban and the entirety of MAGA want you to believe a liberal is:
This is an entirely different “liberal” from what you’re talking about (and of course the image which I got from some youtube thumbnail is a caricature meant to disparage this type of liberal, you’re supposed to believe that liberals are all crazy SJWs or whatever).
It’s “social liberalism” to be a extremely racist who demonizes immigrants constantly sorry i didn’t know that.
I never said Orban was a liberal?
This is a small step in the right direction. Nobody is saying Magyar is flawless, but Orban was legitimately making LGBT people illegal.
No, it’s about liberal democracy vs illiberal democracy. Liberal democracy gives you the option to vote for different parties in fair elections, separation of power, rule of law and so on. Both conservatism and social liberalism can work within a liberal democracy.
Granted, I can’t read the whole article, but
This part is almost definitely not referring just to unfair elections because I doubt anyone thinks that the “real” people support that. Rather, it’s common to play to the fears of these “real” people: immigrants will steal your job and also be lazy and live off benefits and they’ll also murder, rape and pillage. The gay liberals will make heterosex illegal. Etc. Orban was pushing this, Putin is pushing this, EKRE in my country has beeb pushing this, GOP has been pushing this forever. And the narrative usually pits these “bad” others against “real” hard-working folks, as if the gays and foreigners are going to be a huge danger to them and everything they hold dear.