Obama literally got the Nobel peace price while bombing civilians with drones in the middle east, do you really think that what’s happening in Nigeria is significantly worse?
There is a difference yes, equating the two allows the people who are less justified and also currently doing things to get away with more than I think you’re realizing. I’m also pointing out that that is basically the main strategy for people who support Trump right now, pretend the bad things Democrats have done are basically exactly the same level of bad as this straight up fucking evil bullshit fascism we are seeing. I’m simply saying that equating everything and calling it all the same amount of bad is not productive and allows the worst to become more normalized than they would otherwise. I’m not justifying anything bad that any Democratic president did, just saying that we need to have gray areas here and recognize some level of tiers of evil, not just pretend that somehow Obama and Trump are the same person.
Ok, point out the material difference between war crimes conducted by obama and trump. “Decorum” or “justifications” don’t count as material differences.
trump is worse on many other topics, from outright fascism in the US to openly supporting fascists abroad to cutting USAID and such, but in terms of military action this administration is mostly just following the long-established bipartisan war crime traditions.
For support for fascism, look no further than Truman (D) presiding over Operation Paperclip which collaborated with the Vatican to save many Nazis and relocate them all over the US and South America, give them new identies, jobs, money, and protection.
I’m not saying D are all paragons, in fact fuck much of what they have done, and fuck them for being beholden to the rich, fuck them for a bunch of other stuff besides, but there was more genuine intent for good than this absolute filth fascism horseshit. Lefties are supposed to be the side of the spectrum that can actually parse differing levels of evil, but it seems more like many of us want to make perfect the enemy of good
The US is not and has never been good. The Ds are not and have never been good. They preside over genocides, support Nazis and NeoNazis, starve millions of innocents for political gain, kill children, destroy the environment for generations with chemicals and radioactive waste, mass incarcerate people for profit and political control, purge leftists from the country when necessary, spread lies about the world to create hatred and fear, and never stop spending money on the larger war machine in history as it grinds people into blood and dust.
The Rs do it too. There is no good to be found in the US political system. None. Zero. Zilch. The perfect is the not the enemy of the good here. There is no good to be an enemy of. The leftists in America fighting both parties are the good. Perfect is the enemy of the revolutionary left.
“Every single person and political American participant ever is evil!” Just generalizing and equating every American ever. The fuck is anybody supposed to do with an attitude like that? I supposed to you the only thing to do is to riot and burn down all institutions and kill every politician right? You hearing now how that sounds like a fucking Russian bot? It’s not like they are supporting one side or the other their goal is chaos, and buddy this shit your spewing is fucking chaotic
Talk about a slippery slope. Your position is that we can’t possibly do better than genocide, settler colonialism, and supporting Nazis and neonazis, and anyone who says those things are non-starters is obviously a bloodthirsty murderous Russia supporter.
Do you see how your worldview is so tiny that it affords literally no other room for anything other than mass murder?
Are you really so depraved that you can’t imagine anything better than mass incarceration along racial lines, bombing countries at our whim, committing mass murder and then saying we’d do it again, and starving innocent people for the crime of not selling their oil to the empire.
There is a better way than the American way. The American way is a dead end. It must be overturned. Building a just society on the basis of land theft through genocide is not sustainable.
My point is the opposite of normalizing Trump. What needs normalizing is the (correct) view that the USA has always been a genocidal war-crime state, and that a mere change of leadership back to Kamala “most lethal army in the world” Harris-type democrats will not suffice. I equate them because, in international policy, they’re indistinguishable, geopolitics are bipartisan in the USA and they’ve always been. Trump surely is worse for USA inhabitants than democrats, no doubt, but I’m a Spaniard, not an US citizen.
They’re not wrong tho, how do we stop the libs from going back to brunch while Gavin Newsom continues 98% of Trump’s policies, and then hand power back to the republicans in 2030?
Wow, are you telling me that the resounding opinion of libs in .world is not that the Democrats are indistinguishable in geopolitics from Republicans? What a discovery
Obama literally got the Nobel peace price while bombing civilians with drones in the middle east, do you really think that what’s happening in Nigeria is significantly worse?
There is a difference yes, equating the two allows the people who are less justified and also currently doing things to get away with more than I think you’re realizing. I’m also pointing out that that is basically the main strategy for people who support Trump right now, pretend the bad things Democrats have done are basically exactly the same level of bad as this straight up fucking evil bullshit fascism we are seeing. I’m simply saying that equating everything and calling it all the same amount of bad is not productive and allows the worst to become more normalized than they would otherwise. I’m not justifying anything bad that any Democratic president did, just saying that we need to have gray areas here and recognize some level of tiers of evil, not just pretend that somehow Obama and Trump are the same person.
Ok, point out the material difference between war crimes conducted by obama and trump. “Decorum” or “justifications” don’t count as material differences.
trump is worse on many other topics, from outright fascism in the US to openly supporting fascists abroad to cutting USAID and such, but in terms of military action this administration is mostly just following the long-established bipartisan war crime traditions.
For support for fascism, look no further than Truman (D) presiding over Operation Paperclip which collaborated with the Vatican to save many Nazis and relocate them all over the US and South America, give them new identies, jobs, money, and protection.
I’m not saying D are all paragons, in fact fuck much of what they have done, and fuck them for being beholden to the rich, fuck them for a bunch of other stuff besides, but there was more genuine intent for good than this absolute filth fascism horseshit. Lefties are supposed to be the side of the spectrum that can actually parse differing levels of evil, but it seems more like many of us want to make perfect the enemy of good
The US is not and has never been good. The Ds are not and have never been good. They preside over genocides, support Nazis and NeoNazis, starve millions of innocents for political gain, kill children, destroy the environment for generations with chemicals and radioactive waste, mass incarcerate people for profit and political control, purge leftists from the country when necessary, spread lies about the world to create hatred and fear, and never stop spending money on the larger war machine in history as it grinds people into blood and dust.
The Rs do it too. There is no good to be found in the US political system. None. Zero. Zilch. The perfect is the not the enemy of the good here. There is no good to be an enemy of. The leftists in America fighting both parties are the good. Perfect is the enemy of the revolutionary left.
“Every single person and political American participant ever is evil!” Just generalizing and equating every American ever. The fuck is anybody supposed to do with an attitude like that? I supposed to you the only thing to do is to riot and burn down all institutions and kill every politician right? You hearing now how that sounds like a fucking Russian bot? It’s not like they are supporting one side or the other their goal is chaos, and buddy this shit your spewing is fucking chaotic
Talk about a slippery slope. Your position is that we can’t possibly do better than genocide, settler colonialism, and supporting Nazis and neonazis, and anyone who says those things are non-starters is obviously a bloodthirsty murderous Russia supporter.
Do you see how your worldview is so tiny that it affords literally no other room for anything other than mass murder?
Are you really so depraved that you can’t imagine anything better than mass incarceration along racial lines, bombing countries at our whim, committing mass murder and then saying we’d do it again, and starving innocent people for the crime of not selling their oil to the empire.
There is a better way than the American way. The American way is a dead end. It must be overturned. Building a just society on the basis of land theft through genocide is not sustainable.
My point is the opposite of normalizing Trump. What needs normalizing is the (correct) view that the USA has always been a genocidal war-crime state, and that a mere change of leadership back to Kamala “most lethal army in the world” Harris-type democrats will not suffice. I equate them because, in international policy, they’re indistinguishable, geopolitics are bipartisan in the USA and they’ve always been. Trump surely is worse for USA inhabitants than democrats, no doubt, but I’m a Spaniard, not an US citizen.
You’re failing in your goal
They’re not wrong tho, how do we stop the libs from going back to brunch while Gavin Newsom continues 98% of Trump’s policies, and then hand power back to the republicans in 2030?
That’s your opinion, good to know
The resounding opinion. You are so bad at debate club lol jesus christ
Wow, are you telling me that the resounding opinion of libs in .world is not that the Democrats are indistinguishable in geopolitics from Republicans? What a discovery
Not defending it in any way, but he got the award before the drone campaigns I believe. I think he got it like as soon as he took office?
Also, it’s not just Nigeria. If this were a vacuum, sure. But these kinds of arguments just come off as disingenuous these days.
The nobel peace prize really has never been an indicator of someone not causing wide spread death and destruction both indirectly or directly.
The name is kinda misleading. The whole peace aspect is an ideal not a reality sadly.
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